Re: Aesir's Attempt to Sound...Sound.
From what I've just seen in kruger's latest "Religion" gallery submission, should I actually believe you're serious in regards to this subject, I find you biased, dim, and exemplary of every reason religions and their followers are increasingly despised. If not, then you're just a dim, argumentative piece of shit that either can't play the part well, or plays it a bit too well - either way, it's bad.
It's just happenstance you not only showed your true colors within the gallery, but actually went a step further by blogging for honest answers and intelligent debate - neither of which you actually desire.
I'll just quickly highlight a warning here for anyone else in the section thinking aesir is being serious about wanting answers and proposing fair debate like an intelligent person. This is a very small portion taken from the kruger submission - the link is at the bottom:
AESIR: The property is a hard thing to grasp.It is upheld in Eastern Societies, where
we are individualistic. Women in Islam are treated as "property", yet most of the time, they are treated better than the average Westerner. It depends what you mean by slavery. Like I
take orders from my boss, and never disobey him outrightly, so am I a slave?
He owns me in the sense that he could strip me of my position and kick me out
of the job site like a piece of old furniture. That is a tricky issue to grasp. Scripture is inspired by God through man. So the authors write specifically to their current era.
However, even though it was written at a specific time, the themes can be applied
throughout time. Not necessarily the laws though, since Jesus came to fulfill
the old covenant (the one Yahweh cut with Abraham) and establish the new law;
love God and love one another.
AESIR: To put it simply, treat your slaves fairly and mercifully just like your heavenly master treats you fairly and mercifully.
Basically, here's a guy that seems to have all the nitty-gritty ramifications behind issues like slavery, rape, sexuality, archaic dogma, abuse, misogyny, and brainwashing kinda float over his head or are willfully ignored or omitted from his argument. Though in lieu of being so rude as to make this immediate assumption, I decided to question his ill-logic instead, after reminding him in so many words actions such as rape are generally.... bad:
RIN: Wrong. Rape is not so much about sex, but control and power, entitlement, and
gratification. Ya know, those things that add into the reason rape is a heinous thing. Plus, i'm wondering how many books, bios, docus you've read and viewed, and trips you've made to the
Middle East to back up all this knowledge you claim on how Muslims treat their women? Also, u might mention a big difference between slavery and working may have something to do with a
paycheck, for one.
Or whether you'd be willing to say what i'm seeing just above me to the owners of all the child
slaves and prostitutes which exist in our world today; since it's ok by your religious standards. Honestly, what i'm seeing here is a Bible defender who just warped a cold-text verse into something softer in the span of 20 minutes to help justify his support of the position as
anything but mindless, cruel, foolish, and detestable. How? The Bible states It's actually ok to beat your slave to death so long as they manage to survive ...for a day or two afterward - so,
basically speaking, you just made that shit up.
Simple enough questions and requests for some facts to back up his claims - of course, I was probably expecting too much by thinking I'd get a non-passive-aggressive, issue-skirting response; something more akin to the faux level-headed intelligence you see in his blog, and definitely belying what i subsequently received:
AESIR: So basically... you're making all this stuff up and making assumptions... and yes, i do know more than you.
There ya have it, folks - straight from the horse's mouth. A true example in piety, honesty, mature debating skills, and facing a challenge head-on. Note how I never claimed to know more than he thinks he does, never made an assumption on anything, called out contradictions and plain false info only when and because it was mentioned, and only asked for back-up to his asinine claims if he wished - and to actually be fair by giving him a chance - to refute them with facts, logic, what's real (ok, ok, i already knew it was all ignorant, but this is part of what intelligent, honest, and mature debate is really about).
Of course, I'd been going through religious galleries and whatnot for the better part of the evening, and figured I'd come across something like this sooner or later, but can I say JESUS. H. FUCKING CHRIST? And it went on:
RIN: no, you just did, though. The question was to prove your knowledge, not assume
you know more than anyone. So basically... you just proved you know shit.
AESIR: no, not everyone, just you.
RIN: (second time) the question was to prove it. Actually just for shits n grins, since you've already showed before i commented you're more than a little on the dim side. That's 15 minutes so far
without a shred of backup on your end. btw... i said not to assume you know more than anyone, not everyone - meaning it wouldn't be good to say you know more than even one other person... but thanks for proving why twice so far here.
Obviously he came on like a miffed child, with rehearsed comebacks so dumb they didn't fit what I was saying and clearly resulted without him reading them in the first place. They remain peppered throughout the comments section of the gallery for many other commenters - the only times he refrains from cheap insult and complete ignorance of what's said, challenged to him, or asked of him in terms of proof, is when a few bleeding hearts scramble to remain P.C. toward the religious freak.
I kindly explained I was totally leaving the (what he made) an aggressive argument and that the convo was over, but he persisted by leaving more comments after I had gone.
And now a nice, eloquently-written blog shows up, asking for gentle debate and honest answers to questions he seems to have a right to ask, but shut his ears for the incorrect responses.
They say sarcastic religious assholes are like pigeons playing chess - you can have all the right moves, know exactly what you're doing, be a total spatial and strategic genius all the while playing fair... the pigeon will still call an instant check-mate, shit on the board, and fly off to claim victory.
Aesir, get one thing through your head - within the span of half an hour you completely burned up your chances with several people through your ignorance, rudeness, judgment, pretentiousness, naivete, attitude, and lack of experience.
To be worthy of debate is to understand and avoid argumentative fallacy, stray from personal judgments, be seasoned in worldly knowledge and experience, listen as much or more than speak, and be of the maturity, common sense, and interpersonal discipline to receive and reciprocate, instead of dodge and lash.
You've proven to be capable of none of these things, acting in total contradiction to these important fundamentals of communication and problem-solving - the entire reason the religion argument has persisted needlessly - YOU are the reason these arguments persist needlessly.
Like many others here and many places else in life, you're not adequately prepared for, or worthy of, further debate in this instance, and I'll guarantee many others, as well. Hopefully you'll take this as a learning experience and gain the knowledge, experience, and maturity you desperately need before tackling such things again.
Anyway, even if the whole thing is bullshit and has nothing to do with real religious beliefs at the end of the day, ain't it like fucking yourself in the ass, anyway? - that alone deserves some attention - so check out the insane and ridiculous comments and steer clear of this one!
rin Uploaded 04/25/2012